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                比尔.盖茨谈核能
                发布时间:2014-10-21 来源:《中国核工业》

                ??? 记者您作为全球顶级IT专家创造了以Windows为平台的软件产业的辉煌业绩,现在又从事慈善事业,您常常说一生要实现三个愿望。第三个愿望,就是让人类用上清洁、经济的电能。为了达成这个愿望,您把希望寄托在您认为最有潜力的核能身上。您是从何时起因何事而对核能开始感兴趣的?
                  
                  
                  盖茨先生:作为三年前我在TED大会演讲的一部分,我说过,我内心深处有一个愿望,希望全世界能够生产出比煤更便宜的无碳能源。
                  
                  我对核能感兴趣有两个原因。第一是因为在中国,我们已经看到,获得能源是让人们摆脱贫困的关键。它极大地促进了教育、医疗、交通以及其他方面的发展。第二个原因是,因为在全球最贫穷的地区生活的农民,即将面对由于气候变化所带来的潜在的灾难性后果。尽管他们几乎没有做过什么导致气候变化的事情。世界正面临着减少碳排放这个无法回避的紧要任务。
                  
                  我们需要可持续的、可再生的、低碳的新能源。创造这样一种资源并将其在全世界范围内使用,会帮助我们阻止全球变暖,同时也将对消除贫困和提高全球居民的生活水平产生重要作用。
                    
                  纵观我的整个职业生涯,我对创新的力量笃信不疑。所以,我通过投资很多的新能源公司来追求这个梦想。其中,让我感到尤其振奋的是泰拉能源公司。它是一个我参股其中并且担任了董事长的核能公司。这个公司有一个创新性的设计,能够极大地提高核能的安全性能,以便让核能成为非常令人振奋、能够提供大规模、安全、清洁能源的方式。
                    

                  记者在您看来,核能在当代能源发展中占有怎样的位置?您如何看待核能的未来发展方向?
                  
                  
                  盖茨先生:核能已经在现代能源开发方面发挥着重要的作用,而且它还将在推动世界二氧化碳限制排放的进程中发挥更为决定性的作用。相比于其他能源,比如煤炭,核能的总体安全记录是显著的。但是,人们对于核能安全和它所产生的废物的担忧,必须得到解决,特别是在福岛核事故发生之后。
                  
                  在过去的30年里,尽管依赖于安全、清洁和廉价的电力,经济有了快速发展,但是在核技术应用领域,却几乎没有太大的进步。当你身处发展中国家时,你会发现,用电的好处是显而易见的。学习所需的照明、冷藏疫苗、净化水、洁净厨具都需要用电。假如可以以廉价(和清洁)的方式提供,电力就会变成为穷人带来福祉的变革性力量。
                  
                  如果能合理、负责、又安全地利用好核能,核能就能够为我们提供高品质生活所需要的大部分基本电力负荷。并且,它对环境不会产生任何负面影响。我对泰拉能源感兴趣,就是因为公司解决了很多核能利用的障碍,提供了一个更安全、可再生的、更可靠的技术。
                  
                  记者
                您一直在全世界致力于推广行波堆,请您谈谈行波堆对未来核能技术以及全球能源经济的预期影响。
                  
                  
                  盖茨先生:因为意识到对于一种安全、可再生、可靠的核能技术的需要,我们在2006年创立了泰拉能源,即使今天的核电站设计已经被证明是非常安全的,我们仍希望能够让它更加安全。为了使所有国家都能够利用核能,我们也希望可以解决核能长期以来成本较高、铀燃料难以获得,以及对于核武器扩散的担忧等问题。
                  
                  我们还希望解决如何处理已使用过的核燃料的问题。为了实现我们所有的目标,我们评估了所有已在理论上被研究和讨论过的核反应堆类型。然后,我们选择了行波堆,并创立了泰拉能源来发展这项技术。
                  
                  在过去的几年中,我们在推动行波堆的设计和工程方面,已经取得了极大进展,超越了传统的研发阶段。我们已采纳了从以前的参考电站汲取的经验教训。我们通过最先进的分析和工程工具,将研究和电站操作经验结合起来,并利用了来自世界各地领先专家和机构通过共同努力形成的成果。我们已完成核心的概念设计,并进展到工程设计阶段。
                  
                  我们也已经开始了许多关键材料和燃料的测试项目,以进一步增强对这一技术的信心。我们希望,通过与合适的合作伙伴合作,我们可以快速进入到工程的详细设计阶段。此外,我们希望,通过结合合作伙伴和我们的优势,在2023年前成功建造行波反应堆的示范堆。
                  
                  除了第四代反应堆设计中固有的安全性能提升,行波堆技术还能够利用贫铀并简化燃料循环过程。它可以大幅减少核废料,使乏燃料处置问题变得更简单。最终,它甚至可以使用已经使用过的轻水反应堆燃料,将其作为燃料来源,进而降低需要储存的乏燃料的量。
                  
                  鉴于所有这些原因,行波堆将会提高未来核电的经济竞争力,我相信这是一个有突破性的进展。通过我们与合作伙伴的通力合作,我们将实现向全世界提供安全、经济、环保和可持续的核能的目标。
                  
                  记者
                从世界经济可持续发展以及改善人类居住环境和大气环境角度来看,发展核能是科学理性的选择。但对于核能的发展一直有不同的声音,您如何看待这些声音?您对核能安全以及后处理等问题怎么看?
                  
                  
                  盖茨先生:我们认识到,关于核能技术有一系列的担忧,主要是围绕安全、核废物和核武器扩散问题。我们刚刚度过福岛核事故的两周年纪念日,北朝鲜现在又成为世界担心核武器扩散的新闻焦点,我们需要以负责任的态度,合理地解决这些问题。
                  
                  泰拉能源的目标是开发一种更高标准的新技术,以减轻对于安全问题和核武器扩散的担忧。核能现在已经是非常非常安全的,但是我们相信泰拉公司提出的这种设计方案能使得核能更加安全。它依赖于自然的物理定律,能够缓解类似于福岛核事故那样的严重后果。它可以有效地使用廉价的燃料。它减少了对于铀浓缩和乏燃料处理的需要,并简化了燃料循环。这些特点使得将铀转化为可用于核武器的材料变得尤其困难。我们把所有的这些视为行波堆的优点,并因之得到很多人的认同而深受鼓舞。
                  
                  记者
                据悉您此次参加博鳌论坛,与中国国家主席习近平进行了会面。是否可以给我们透露一下会面时您谈及的话题?对于中国的核能发展,您如何评价?在选择核能发展及第四代核电技术开发的国际合作伙伴方面,您有什么想法?
                  
                  
                  盖茨先生:我很荣幸能够在博鳌同习主席见面,我们讨论了中国提高世界各国贫穷人口福祉的机会。在短短的几十年间,中国帮助6亿人摆脱贫困的记录为造福其他许多国家,特别是非洲提供了丰富的经验。
                  
                  就中国的核能发展而言,在全世界核能领域新建电站中,中国占据了40%的领先地位。我相信中国的核电项目将成为其它国家负责任地发展核电的一个榜样。中国核电项目的规模以及其所拥有的技术人才,将使其成为领先的核能技术创新者和核电站的建造者。
                  
                  泰拉能源的领导者与中国资深的能源专家有良好的互动。泰拉能源目前仍在与开发行波堆的合适的合作伙伴深入交流。但我们非常钦佩中国对推进核能发展所做出的贡献。对于泰拉能源行波堆技术的最先实验和部署,我们正在寻求对于电力负荷有着极大需求,并且渴望在先进的快堆方面能够积极推进的合作伙伴。
                  
                  记者
                发展核能,是您对未来50年许下的愿望,福岛核事故是否延缓了您的预期?您的计划有没有做出相应的调整?您认为未来20年核能发展的关键在哪里?
                  
                  
                  盖茨先生:福岛核事故有很多重要的经验教训值得整个行业铭记在心。福岛事故突显了对于像泰拉能源能够提供的新技术的需要。事故发生后,我们暂停下来仔细确认能够抵御地震和洪水等相关灾难的行波堆的设计细节。我们认真研究行波堆的安全特性,并且我们对行波堆提供更加先进的反应堆安全设计方案非常有信心。
                  
                  泰拉能源公司设计的内在安全系统不依赖于厂外电或水,这些系统能够更好地抵御任何一种自然灾害。
                  
                  未来20年核能发展的关键,是形成一个简单的燃料循环从而从根本上改变我们目前的核能生产方式。我们需要开发可以让我们的人民确认核能安全性的一个新安全系统,需要开发技术解决方案,以减少或消除可能导致核武器扩散的区域。出于对如何处理和储存核废料的担忧,我们需要寻找新的方法以减少核废料的产生,并开发出更好的贮存和处置核废料的方式。在未来的20年,所有这一切都是非常可行和有必要的,我们相信泰拉能源的设计可以解决这些问题,并可在未来十年付诸实践。
                  
                  记者
                您对中国核工业的发展有怎样的期待?请用两句话概括一下。
                  
                  
                  盖茨先生:随着能源需求的增长,传统能源的生产方式,比如煤炭、天然气等已经不能满足逐渐升级的不对我们的地球排放更多二氧化碳的需求。鉴于核电发展的规模和承诺,中国将在下个世纪成为全球能源发展的重要市场。我相信,以致力于核能科学研究和创新技术发展的决心,中国必将成为世界核能的领导者。事实上,中国已经在这条路上取得了进展。?? (杨金凤)


                  (特别鸣谢:泰拉能源公司高级副总裁兼中国首席代表王定南、中核集团核动力事业部副主任章庆华为本次专访所付出的努力)

                ?

                ?

                    盖茨先生回复《中国核工业》杂志的书面采访函(原稿)
                  
                  
                Q(Question)As the worlds top IT expert, you succeeded in the software industry of Windows platform. Now you are busy in charity work. You always said that you have three wishes during your lifetime. The third is to make clean, economic electric energy available to the human race. To realize it, you lay your hope in nuclear energy. When did you have interest in nuclear energy, and why?
                  
                A(Answer): As part of a speech I gave at Ted threeyears ago, I said I had a very deep-seated wish that would allow the world to produce carbon-free energy cheaper than coal.
                  
                I
                m interested in energy for two reasons. First, because as China has seen, access to energy is crucial for lifting people out of poverty. It improves education, health care, transportation, and many other aspects of development.? And second, because subsistence farmers in the poorest parts of the world will face potentially devastating consequences from climate change though they did essentially nothing to contribute to the problem. The world faces an inescapable imperative to reduce carbon emissions.
                  
                We need new sources of sustainable, scalable, low-carbon energy. Inventing such a source and making it available to the world will help us stop warming our planet and, at the same time will be a powerful force to eradicate poverty and improve global living standards.
                  
                Throughout my whole career, I
                ve been a believer in the power of innovation, so Ive invested in a number of new energy companies that are pursuing this dream. One that I am particularly excited about is TerraPower, a nuclear power company that Im quite involved with and where I serve as Chairman. It has an innovative design and vastly improved safety features that make it a very exciting approach to providing safe, clean power at scale.
                  
                Q: How do you think the role of nuclear energy played in contemporary energy development? What
                s your view on further development of nuclear power?
                  
                A: Nuclear power has played an important role in energy development and can play an even more decisive role moving forward in a carbon-constrained world. Compared to other sources like coal, its overall safety record is notable. But concerns about the safety of nuclear energy and the waste it creates must be addressed, particularly after Fukushima.
                  
                Over the past 30 years, there has been surprisingly little improvement in the available nuclear technologies despite the rapid economic development that results from access to safe, clean and cheap electricity. When you spend time in the developing world, the benefits of access to electricity are abundantly clear. Access to electricity means lights to study by, refrigeration for vaccines, sterile water and clean cooking facilities. If provided in a cheap (and clean) way, electricity has transformative power to improve the well-being of the poor.
                  
                Nuclear energy, when harnessed properly, responsibly and safely, can provide the immense levels of base load electricity needed for a high quality of life. Even better, it does so without negative impacts on the environment. I
                m excited about TerraPowers approach because it addresses many of the barriers to the use of nuclear energy and provides a safer, scalable, more secure technology.
                  
                Q: You have been engaged in promotion of traveling wave reactor for a long time. How do you think of the expected effect that the traveling wave reactor will on the nuclear technology and the world
                s energy economic in the future?
                  
                A: We founded TerraPower back in 2006 because we recognized the need for a safe, scalable, secure nuclear energy technology. Even though today
                s nuclear plant designs have proven to be extremely safe, we wanted to make them even safer. In order for all countries to be able to have access to nuclear energy, we also wanted to address the long-term cost and availability of uranium fuel, as well as weapons proliferation concerns.
                  
                We also wanted to address the issue of what to do with spent fuel. To accomplish all of our objectives, we evaluated all the types of nuclear reactors that have been studied or discussed in theory. Then we selected the traveling wave reactor and founded TerraPower to develop it.
                  
                We
                ve made great progress. During the last couple years, we have made great strides in advancing the design and engineering of the traveling wave reactor beyond the traditional research and development stage. We have adopted the lessons learned from previous reference plants. We have incorporated research and operating results, coupled them with the most advanced analytical and engineering tools, and engaged the joint efforts of leading experts and institutions from around the world. We have been able to complete the essential conceptual design and have progressed to the engineering design stage.
                  
                We
                ve also started many key materials and fuel testing programs to further our confidence in this technology. We are hoping that, with the right partners on board, we can quickly move into the detailed engineering design. Furthermore, we hope to combine our partners'strengths with ours to successfully build the prototype traveling wave reactor plant by the year 2023.
                  
                In addition to the safety improvement inherent in the Generation IV reactor design, traveling wave reactor technology can use depleted uranium and simplify the fuel cycle. It produces substantially less waste, making the issue of fuel disposal less complex. Eventually, it should even be able to use spent light water reactor fuel, using it as a fuel source and further reducing the need to store spent fuel.
                  
                For all these reasons, it will improve the economic competitiveness of nuclear power in the future. I believe this is a breakthrough approach and that with the combined efforts of our partners, we can achieve our goal to provide safe, economic, environmentally friendly and sustainable nuclear energy to the entire world.
                  
                Q: We all know that nuclear energy is a scientific and rational choice for energy development considering the sustainable development of world economy and improvement of human living environment. However, there are different voices about the development of nuclear power. How do you deal with those different opinions? What do you think about the nuclear safety and the nuclear non-proliferation?
                  
                A: We recognize that there are a number of concerns with nuclear technology, mainly revolving around safety, waste, and weapons proliferation. We just had the second anniversary of the Fukushima disaster and, with North Korea in the news now around proliferation concerns, we need to responsibly and reasonably address these concerns.
                  
                TerraPower
                s goal is to develop a new technology that will set an even higher standard that will address legitimate concerns over safety and weapons proliferation. Nuclear is very, very safe today, but we believe this design will make it dramatically safer. It relies on natural laws of physics to mitigate accident scenarios like the one at Fukushima. It efficiently uses an inexpensive fuel source. It reduces the need for enrichment and chemical reprocessing and simplifies the fuel cycle. These characteristics will make it much more difficult to convert uranium into materials that can be used in nuclear weapons. We view all of these as tremendously positive attributes and have been encouraged that so many others share this view.
                  
                Q: I heard that you have met with Chairman XI Jinping during your attending of Boao Forum. Could you reveal us a little about? topics of the meeting? What
                s your comment on Chinas development of nuclear energy? What do you think of your international cooperate partner in nuclear energy and its G4 technology?
                  
                A: I was honored to meet with Chairman Xi in Bo'ao and we discussed the opportunity China has to improve the well being of the poor around the world. China's record of lifting 600 million people out of poverty in just a few decades provides a rich source of expertise that could benefit many other countries, particularly those in Africa.
                  
                Regarding China
                s development of nuclear energy, it leads the nuclear sector with 40 percent of all new plants being built in the world. I believe Chinas program will become an example for other countries in scaling up nuclear power responsibly. With the scale of its program and its technical talent, it will become a leading innovator as well as constructor of nuclear power plants.
                  
                TerraPower
                s leadership has had excellent interactions with our fellow energy experts here. It does not yet have a partner to develop the traveling wave reactor, but we certainly admire China for its commitment to advancing nuclear energy. For the initial testing and deployment of TerraPowers traveling wave reactor technology, we are seeking a partner that has a great demand for base load electricity, along with a desire to be an active innovator in advanced fast reactors.
                  
                Q: Developing nuclear power is your wish for the next 50 years. Did the Fukushima event make any difference to this wish? Did you make any change on your plans accordingly? In your view, what is the key to nuclear energy development over the next 20 years?
                  
                A: There are a number of important lessons from the Fukushima incident that the entire industry is taking to heart. It certainly underscores the need for new technologies like TerraPower
                s. After the incident, we paused to carefully confirm details relevant to earthquake and flooding related to the traveling wave design. We carefully addressed safety features, and were confident that the traveling wave reactor provides great advancements in safe reactor designs.
                  
                TerraPower
                s inherent safety systems do not rely on offsite power or water, allowing these systems to better withstand any kind of natural disaster.
                  
                The key to nuclear energy development over the next 20 years is a simpler fuel cycle that fundamentally changes the way we produce nuclear energy. We need to develop new safety systems to reassure citizens that nuclear energy is safe, and develop technical solutions to reduce or eliminate areas that may lead to weapons proliferation. Because of concern over treating or storing nuclear waste, we need to develop innovative ways to reduce waste creation and better ways for storage and disposal. All of this is very possible and necessary in the next 20 years and we believe that TerraPower
                s design addresses these concerns and can be put into practice over the next ten years.
                  
                Q: What
                s your expectation on Chinas development of the nuclear industry?
                  
                A: As the demand for energy grows, traditional forms of power production like coal or gas cannot meet these escalating needs without adding significantly to our?CO
                2???load as a planet. Given the scope of its program and commitment to nuclear power, China stands out as a key market for overall energy development in the next century. I believe that China, with its commitment to scientific research and technical innovation, will become a world leader in nuclear energy. It is already well on its way.